1 16:50:28 * garyo-home (n=chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #scons
2 17:58:21 * stevenknight (n=stevenkn@69.36.227.130) has joined #scons
3 17:58:47 <stevenknight> hey all
4 17:59:09 <garyo-home> Hi Steven; I'
5 17:59:11 <garyo-home> m here
6 17:59:40 <garyo-home> I've been working on a SCons talk for end of next week. I'll share it when I'm done.
7 17:59:48 <stevenknight> cool
8 18:00:08 <stevenknight> i've got slides from about three talks that i need to make public
9 18:00:18 <stevenknight> iirc you asked me for some awhile back and i never got back to you... :-(
10 18:00:26 <garyo-home> true...
11 18:00:51 <garyo-home> if you have any you'd like to send my way feel free, though at this point i think I have enough (about 26 slides for an hour talk)
12 18:00:56 * GregNoel is no longer marked as being away
13 18:01:11 <GregNoel> Hi, I'm here...
14 18:01:16 <garyo-home> Hi, Greg.
15 18:01:21 <stevenknight> hi greg
16 18:01:26 <stevenknight> garyo: what's the audience?
17 18:02:02 <garyo-home> about 20 people, small company developers. It's a group of companies under the same investor umbrella.
18 18:02:17 <stevenknight> actually, we should probably start, i'm on the shuttle but only for ~30 more minutes
19 18:02:26 <stevenknight> garyo-home: so kind of a general intro?
20 18:02:27 <garyo-home> ok I'm ready.
21 18:02:39 <GregNoel> 2201
22 18:02:46 <garyo-home> yes, intro but technical. Focus on cross-platform. Yes, 2201.
23 18:03:12 <GregNoel> Steven says invalid, but I don't know his reasons.
24 18:03:00 <stevenknight> 2201: consensus invalid? jean can re-open if he comes up with a case
25 18:03:18 <GregNoel> ah
26 18:03:12 <garyo-home> yes.
27 18:03:22 <GregNoel> ok, done
28 18:03:32 <stevenknight> i was going from your comment, actually
29 18:03:34 <GregNoel> 2217: Gary, how does one 'wrap things up with subprocess' when it's a Python action? External commands can use subprocess, I expect, but I don't see how to do it with a Python action.
30 18:03:37 <stevenknight> 2217: consensus wontfix
31 18:04:14 <garyo-home> 2217: right, subproc would only work to fork external actions. No way to multiprocess pure python.
32 18:04:23 <garyo-home> Especially with chdir!
33 18:04:04 <stevenknight> i think you could do it by forking a process for each worker thread
34 18:04:25 <stevenknight> and sending some indication to "execute this python action"
35 18:04:35 <stevenknight> but it would be really hairy to work out the details
36 18:04:37 <stevenknight> and not worth it
37 18:04:41 <garyo-home> right, not worth it!
38 18:04:47 <GregNoel> concur
39 18:04:48 <stevenknight> agree re: especially chdir
40 18:04:51 <stevenknight> okay, done
41 18:05:00 <garyo-home> 2219, I did it
42 18:05:04 <stevenknight> 2219: garyo++
43 18:05:11 <GregNoel> ditto
44 18:05:14 <garyo-home> thx
45 18:05:21 <garyo-home> too cool to pass up
46 18:05:21 <GregNoel> 2220
47 18:05:21 <GregNoel> Gary, unfortunately, Repository() won't map subdirectories; it only maps some directory to the top of the build. And I'm pretty sure it's not working as designed; it certainly surprised me.
48 18:05:21 <GregNoel> Steven, maybe I have a convert's fervor, but you did such a good job of convincing me, that I don't believe that Repository() is sufficient for all cases. The case of a variant in a repository is the killer; the search order is context-dependent.
49 18:05:21 <GregNoel> (If you want to propose some new mechanism, I'll be happy to shoot holes in it... {;-})
50 18:05:21 <GregNoel> It's easy enough to characterize what happened: add a source/foo.c and try to build it as Object('generate/foo.c'). SCons removes it before trying to build it. That is, SCons is treating it like a target, even though there's no source in the 'include' directory.
51 18:05:21 <GregNoel> I can add the failing SConstruct to the issue or create a new issue if you want.
52 18:05:25 <garyo-home> 2220?
53 18:06:06 <stevenknight> Greg: cool, please add th failing SConstruct
54 18:06:10 <stevenknight> let me research
55 18:06:23 <GregNoel> OK, research, Steven?
56 18:06:25 <garyo-home> sounds like consensus to me
57 18:06:41 <stevenknight> the approach we've had success with on the Chromium (a.k.a. Google Chrome) build is to use addRepository() (internal method)
58 18:07:06 <stevenknight> to hook up "source" directories to arbitrary build directories
59 18:06:54 <garyo-home> Chrome is using scons?
60 18:07:05 <GregNoel> Why else would they hire him? {;-}
61 18:07:17 <stevenknight> yes, Chrome is using SCons
62 18:07:28 <stevenknight> although the current release version is still pure Visual Studio
63 18:07:25 <garyo-home> can I say that in my talk?
64 18:07:47 <stevenknight> yes, it's public knowledge (it's even in wikipedia!)
65 18:07:59 <stevenknight> (and they wouldn't let them put it there if it weren't true!)
66 18:08:08 <GregNoel> suuuuuure
67 18:08:11 <garyo-home> :-/
68 18:08:24 <stevenknight> Google Earth is also built with SCons
69 18:08:31 <garyo-home> nice!
70 18:08:44 <garyo-home> ok, 2221?
71 18:08:55 <stevenknight> pretty much all Google client-side apps are or will be SCons
72 18:09:08 <stevenknight> ("client-side" == Google for "runs on the user's system, not on a server")
73 18:09:15 <garyo-home> yup, I got that.
74 18:09:24 <stevenknight> it threw me when i got here
75 18:09:19 <GregNoel> 2221, I see 2145 is already assigned to Steven for research; shall I assume that both of them should be set to 1.2 p3? (It would clear off one of your pending research issues, Steven...)
76 18:09:25 <stevenknight> anyway
77 18:09:33 <stevenknight> yes, 1.2 p3
78 18:09:44 <GregNoel> ok, done
79 18:10:06 <stevenknight> 2222:
80 18:10:17 <garyo-home> 2222: mark me as cc and I'll watch it.
81 18:10:25 <GregNoel> done
82 18:10:35 <stevenknight> done
83 18:10:39 <garyo-home> (I'll have to make sure my issue query finds issues w/ me as cc...)
84 18:11:14 <GregNoel> If it doesn't, the BugSchedule query does.
85 18:11:18 <garyo-home> 2223: seems like David was working on this on the ML. Side effects might be the way to go?
86 18:11:32 <GregNoel> 2223, consensus David, but when?
87 18:11:23 <stevenknight> 2223: 2.x, p2, david?
88 18:11:34 <garyo-home> I'm fine w/ that.
89 18:11:41 <GregNoel> done
90 18:11:43 <garyo-home> 2.x p2 fine w/ me
91 18:12:04 <GregNoel> 2224
92 18:12:09 <stevenknight> 2224: 1.2 p2 david
93 18:12:11 <garyo-home> 2224: grr I need to get my buildbot vm up. I'll try vs_revamp on another windows machine soon.
94 18:12:22 <garyo-home> yes, 1.2 p2 david.
95 18:12:27 <GregNoel> done
96 18:12:42 <GregNoel> And that's the current spreadsheet!
97 18:12:24 <stevenknight> you'll probably run into the problems i had
98 18:12:32 <stevenknight> and the reasons he withdrew it from 1.1
99 18:12:46 <stevenknight> the other tool modules like mslink still call old code to find and set versions
100 18:12:50 <stevenknight> and that gums up his stuff
101 18:12:56 <stevenknight> i don't think it'll be too bad to fix
102 18:13:11 <garyo-home> I'll see if I can help, I think it's important.
103 18:13:19 <stevenknight> agreed re: important
104 18:13:22 <garyo-home> Just need to get a clean windows box to work on.
105 18:13:35 <stevenknight> 1.1 is about to go release candidate, though, hence 1.2
106 18:13:42 <stevenknight> (should have RC'ed already...)
107 18:13:42 <garyo-home> yes, that's OK.
108 18:13:59 <stevenknight> on to 2005?
109 18:14:06 <stevenknight> as in 2005[hq]x?
110 18:14:09 <garyo-home> Too bad about my 1.1 issues... all will get deferred to 1.2.
111 18:14:15 <stevenknight> mine too
112 18:14:22 <garyo-home> I can't edit the 2005h2 ssheet, but others are fine.
113 18:14:33 <stevenknight> i had editing problems too
114 18:14:50 <stevenknight> i was able to edit 2005q1
115 18:15:25 <GregNoel> The "share" toggle wasn't selected, although I've checked on it before; I set it now for sure, so it should be OK
116 18:15:36 <garyo-home> I don't think I can edit any of them, I'll try again now.
117 18:15:53 <stevenknight> GregNoel: i did get in to 2005h2 shortly before the meeting, thanks
118 18:16:03 <GregNoel> make sure you follow the "edit" link _first_
119 18:17:04 <garyo-home> well, doesn't work for me yet, but that's OK for now, let's look at a few of them.
120 18:17:18 <stevenknight> i have less than 10 minutes (closer to five), since we haven't pre-edited how can we make best use of the time?
121 18:17:34 <garyo-home> we're doing h2, right?
122 18:17:39 <GregNoel> yes
123 18:17:42 <stevenknight> 2005h2 yes
124 18:17:54 <garyo-home> I agree w/ you guys on the first 2
125 18:18:08 <garyo-home> 1259, 1209
126 18:18:15 <stevenknight> okay, 1259: worksforme done
127 18:18:26 <stevenknight> 1209: dup 324, done
128 18:18:35 <GregNoel> Steven, should we move the schedule to Mondays?
129 18:18:44 <stevenknight> 1210: i agree w/research
130 18:18:47 <stevenknight> schedule:
131 18:18:55 <stevenknight> sorry, i should have weighed in
132 18:19:09 <stevenknight> day of the week is less an issue for me than time
133 18:19:14 <GregNoel> 1210, but who?
134 18:19:29 <stevenknight> i have to get on the shuttle ~17:15-17:30 PDT
135 18:19:36 <stevenknight> and off ~18:30-19:00 PDT
136 18:19:56 <stevenknight> i've started biking to/from the shuttle, so it's 30 minutes off-line
137 18:19:57 <GregNoel> I meant the release schedule: from Sat to Mon
138 18:20:04 <stevenknight> oh!
139 18:20:08 <stevenknight> heh
140 18:20:15 <stevenknight> yes, Monday for those
141 18:20:38 <GregNoel> OK, I'll update the roadmap page
142 18:20:51 <garyo-home> 1210: I think it should be low priority, but research means look into it now. I vote *not* research but 2.x or something
143 18:21:00 <stevenknight> 1210: i'd rather it be someone else
144 18:21:22 <stevenknight> i think it needs some thinking unencumbered by my knowledge of the Dir node code
145 18:21:39 <GregNoel> (We'll have to slip 1.1 by a few days)
146 18:21:47 <stevenknight> right re: 1.1 slip
147 18:21:59 <stevenknight> 1210: shall we see if bill can take it?
148 18:22:04 <garyo-home> Probably just look at the dir after each removal, and if dir is empty and under a build dir, remove dir.
149 18:22:12 <garyo-home> (after each FILE removal, sorry)
150 18:22:52 <GregNoel> You'd have to keep track of whether it was both a build dir and a src dir
151 18:23:11 <garyo-home> 1210: I don't think it's important enough to assign a resource now. (And Greg: yes, there are complications. I'm not voluteering...)
152 18:23:19 <stevenknight> right, and since so much dir behavior is implicit,
153 18:23:39 <stevenknight> figuring out what is or isn't "build dir" vs. "src dir" has the potential for odd heuristics
154 18:23:50 <GregNoel> Since Steven is about to turn into a pumpkin, this is a bad time to be designing.
155 18:23:55 <stevenknight> 1210: 2.x, future draft pick
156 18:24:01 <GregNoel> done
157 18:24:43 <stevenknight> 1213: research (decide if it's still a problem)
158 18:24:50 <GregNoel> 1213, bypass for today?
159 18:24:56 <garyo-home> Yes, I'll research that one (1213)
160 18:24:57 <stevenknight> sure, bypass
161 18:25:03 <stevenknight> er, i meant, garyo!
162 18:25:04 <GregNoel> which?
163 18:25:09 <stevenknight> 1213
164 18:25:15 <stevenknight> 1213 garyo, done
165 18:25:16 <garyo-home> I'll look at it.
166 18:25:18 <garyo-home> quick test.
167 18:25:26 <GregNoel> ok, garyo, research
168 18:25:33 <stevenknight> 8: greg, you want it to see the -include in CCFLAGS and deduce the dependency?
169 18:25:59 <GregNoel> yes
170 18:25:56 <stevenknight> there's another issue i just looked at that takes the other approach,
171 18:26:04 <stevenknight> adding a *FORCEINCLUDE variable
172 18:26:12 <stevenknight> that you set and then it adds the -include flag to the command line
173 18:26:19 <GregNoel> hmmm....
174 18:26:21 <stevenknight> like we do with CPPPATH and -I options e.g.
175 18:26:26 <stevenknight> i think that's more "sconsy"
176 18:26:37 <garyo-home> Agree w/ steven
177 18:26:50 <GregNoel> Would have to be parsed by MergeFlags()...
178 18:27:11 <garyo-home> I don't like looking at cmd lines to figure out deps
179 18:26:57 <stevenknight> okay, fifteen seconds...
180 18:27:02 <stevenknight> agreed re: MergeFlags()
181 18:27:08 <stevenknight> two weeks from now, I assume
182 18:27:14 <stevenknight> for next meeting
183 18:27:15 <garyo-home> ok see you then!
184 18:27:16 <stevenknight> later guys...
185 18:27:18 <GregNoel> bye
186 18:27:20 * stevenknight has quit ("Leaving")
187 18:27:21 <garyo-home> bye
188 18:27:26 <garyo-home> well that was short.
189 18:27:40 <GregNoel> Yeah, but we cleared the current issues
190 18:27:50 <GregNoel> I guess the meeting time is still a work in progress
191 18:27:58 <garyo-home> Greg, would you like to help me edit the 2006h2 sshet? Send me a direct invite or something?
192 18:28:16 <garyo-home> Yes, time is a little early for me but we're hoping to get some Euro zone folks maybe?
193 18:28:27 <GregNoel> ok, I'll do that. I'd really like to figure out why it's failing.
194 18:28:44 <garyo-home> The current issue sheet I never have any trouble with.
195 18:29:00 <garyo-home> But 2006h2 has never worked for me ever.
196 18:29:02 <GregNoel> I know there's a _long_ timeout if you view it and just close the page
197 18:29:33 <garyo-home> Could be it, but I don't think so.
198 18:29:42 <GregNoel> without going through the file->close selection, I mean
199 18:30:33 <garyo-home> Yes, I know. (Just to be clear I'm talking about 200*5*h2 even though I said '06 above)
200 18:31:13 <garyo-home> Maybe a direct invite will work.
201 18:31:28 <GregNoel> I'll send you an individual invitation and we'll see if that works. (I wonder if invitations age? That's from six months ago...)
202 18:31:39 <garyo-home> Could be.
203 18:32:00 <GregNoel> OK, I'll do that
204 18:32:09 <garyo-home> OK, well if we're done for now maybe I'll try to make some progress on a bug or two. And I'll add that doc line you were asking for :-)
205 18:33:05 <GregNoel> Yes... Strangely enough, I wanted a rule like he described, and was annoyed that there was no way to do it. This was a most elegant solution and should be documented.
206 18:33:57 <garyo-home> Will do. See you on the ML...
207 18:34:06 <GregNoel> G'night
208 18:34:10 <garyo-home> bye now
209 18:34:15 * GregNoel has been marked as being away
210 19:54:41 * garyo-home has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]")
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