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   1 19:21:47 <sgk_>	2124:
   2 19:22:16 <sgk_>	brandon, it's the open filehandles thing?
   3 19:22:21 <Azverkan>	yeah
   4 19:22:23 <GregNoel>	I think he's getting the errors because the shims aren't being installed
   5 19:22:33 <Azverkan>	I reproduced the bug localluy
   6 19:22:43 <GregNoel>	With the shims?
   7 19:22:57 <Azverkan>	I haven't figured out whether I can reproduce the problem with Microsoft's CL.EXE yet
   8 19:23:03 <Azverkan>	err wihtout
   9 19:23:10 <Azverkan>	it might be something specific to what they are doing
  10 19:23:17 <sgk_>	if it's without then it's a known issue
  11 19:23:26 <sgk_>	and we need to fix the other bug where the message isn't getting printed
  12 19:23:49 <GregNoel>	Yes, the fact that he found the bug suggests that he should have been getting the message.
  13 19:23:51 <sgk_>	i also think we probably need to make those shims Yet Another configurable item
  14 19:24:15 <GregNoel>	Why would you want to turn them off?
  15 19:24:20 <sgk_>	Carsten's message on the ML about compiler output getting lost when redirected is because of the shims, I think
  16 19:24:28 <Azverkan>	I think it might only applicable to applications that CreateFile with non default filesharing params, but I need to narrow it down more yet
  17 19:25:21 <sgk_>	but that would need to be confirmed
  18 19:25:30 <Azverkan>	whats the "shim"?
  19 19:25:33 <sgk_>	that aside, where does it leave us for 2124?
  20 19:25:45 <GregNoel>	Hmmm...  Sounds to me like Brandon should be working on it
  21 19:25:58 <Azverkan>	I think its a real bug that probably won't get fixed in the 1.0.x timeframe
  22 19:25:59 <sgk_>	we replace the Python open() call (__builtin__.open()) with our own wrapper that calls the real underlying open()
  23 19:26:00 <GregNoel>	shim ==> code in Platform/win32 that replaces open() and file()
  24 19:26:19 <sgk_>	and then calls the win32 api to supress the filehandle inheritance
  25 19:27:19 <Azverkan>	can verify while we move on to other bugs
  26 19:27:29 <sgk_>	okay, cool
  27 19:27:29 <GregNoel>	2124: Brandon, research?
  28 19:27:34 <sgk_>	done
  29 19:27:51 <GregNoel>	We'll see if he comes up with anything before we go
  30 19:27:50 <sgk_>	2155:
  31 19:28:10 <sgk_>	okay
  32 19:28:18 <GregNoel>	2155: consensus invalid
  33 19:28:23 <sgk_>	2155:  sounds like we agree to deprecate it
  34 19:29:07 <sgk_>	guess that would mean holding this open for now ut changing it to track the eventual deprecation?
  35 19:29:12 <GregNoel>	OK, I'll untangle it; probably put a note in 2126
  36 19:29:29 <sgk_>	cool, thanks
  37 19:29:26 <Azverkan>	is there a naming convention for internal vs external functions?
  38 19:29:33 <sgk_>	not really
  39 19:29:53 <sgk_>	the closest we have is that, in general, public functions have CamelCase spelling
  40 19:30:02 <GregNoel>	External usually have caps; internal not, but it's not completely reliable
  41 19:30:07 <sgk_>	but there are plenty of things like subst() that have gained currency
  42 19:30:34 *	sgk_ wishes he had GregNoel's gift for brevity
  43 19:30:53 <sgk_>	i always take a lot of extra words to say things...
  44 19:30:56 *	GregNoel can't type fast, so he learned to be brief
  45 19:31:28 <sgk_>	okay, 2155:  GregNoel to handle
  46 19:31:46 <GregNoel>	done
  47 19:31:57 <GregNoel>	2157?
  48 19:32:20 <sgk_>	2157:  fixing ^C in configure context in general is WONTFIX
  49 19:32:42 <sgk_>	but making sure we don't record an interrupt as a cached failure is... 1.x p3?
  50 19:33:07 <GregNoel>	it's probably the same thing; a partial store of something
  51 19:33:49 <GregNoel>	I'll go with looking at it again as 1.x p3
  52 19:33:58 <sgk_>	done
  53 19:34:16 <GregNoel>	2158?
  54 19:34:19 <sgk_>	2158: consensus 1.0.1 p4 anybody
  55 19:34:25 <GregNoel>	done
  56 19:34:39 <GregNoel>	so who?
  57 19:34:41 <sgk_>	OMG we got through the current issues
  58 19:34:54 <GregNoel>	only four!
  59 19:35:03 <sgk_>	and in only half an hour!
  60 19:35:14 <GregNoel>	true.
  61 19:35:20 *	sgk_ is feeling full of piss and vinegar
  62 19:35:29 <sgk_>	on to the backlog!
  63 19:35:36 <GregNoel>	Should we assign someone when we re-triage?
  64 19:35:44 <sgk_>	for 2158?
  65 19:35:47 <GregNoel>	yes
  66 19:36:05 <sgk_>	who?
  67 19:36:32 <GregNoel>	Anyone: you, me, Gary, Brandon.  It's one line of code!
  68 19:36:42 <sgk_>	me
  69 19:36:45 <GregNoel>	done
  70 19:37:58 <sgk_>	well, let's at least kill those last 2006H2 bugs
  71 19:38:24 <GregNoel>	yes, just getting set up.  My network is slow today
  72 19:38:32 <GregNoel>	1490
  73 19:39:04 <Azverkan>	(output from scons -j50 is funny btw, currently inserts other command lines between the \r and \n on windows so you get all sorts of weird line termination and interleaved output)
  74 19:39:40 <sgk_>	Brandon:  like with -j3 you can get ccclll...eeexxxeee ///fffooo
  75 19:39:42 <sgk_>	that sort of thing?
  76 19:40:08 <Azverkan>	all sorts of extended ascii characters and whatnot
  77 19:40:28 <Azverkan>	depends what code page you have setup
  78 19:40:29 <sgk_>	yeah, we need something that slurps up that stuff and controls the output
  79 19:40:45 <sgk_>	1490:  boy, do i wish we had an installer guru
  80 19:40:53 <GregNoel>	that's the colorizer issue
  81 19:41:02 <GregNoel>	1490, yes
  82 19:41:09 <sgk_>	agreed re: colorizer
  83 19:41:26 <GregNoel>	As I said in the spreadsheet, I have no clue.
  84 19:41:42 <GregNoel>	you two have to work it out
  85 19:42:03 <sgk_>	let's say 1.x p3 (my favorite)
  86 19:42:15 <sgk_>	since we have no one immediate to research it
  87 19:42:33 <GregNoel>	Brandon?  If you agree, I'll go along
  88 19:42:38 <sgk_>	i can try to recruit someone who knows about installation
  89 19:43:03 <sgk_>	i have a couple of people in mind who might be suitable
  90 19:43:16 <GregNoel>	And an AIX guru, and a Solaris guru, and ...
  91 19:43:33 <sgk_>	agreed
  92 19:44:04 <Azverkan>	1490 we are using the stock installer
  93 19:44:21 <Azverkan>	I'd say wontfix with use a different install method?
  94 19:44:38 <sgk_>	right, and it's getting clearer that stock distutils installer isn't up what we need
  95 19:45:10 <GregNoel>	I like wontfix; it closes an issue
  96 19:45:12 <sgk_>	how about 1.x p3 me
  97 19:45:33 <GregNoel>	OK, although you've got too much work
  98 19:45:34 <sgk_>	eh, i don't like losing input for when someone takes a look at it
  99 19:45:44 <sgk_>	yeah, but i'd take this with the intent of passing it off
 100 19:45:48 <sgk_>	once i find someone
 101 19:45:51 <GregNoel>	works for me
 102 19:45:59 <sgk_>	done
 103 19:46:03 <GregNoel>	1.x p3, then
 104 19:46:39 <sgk_>	1500:  sounds like it might be a generic path interpretation issue
 105 19:46:44 <sgk_>	research, who?
 106 19:46:50 <GregNoel>	I think 1500 is a mingw v. native issue
 107 19:47:34 <GregNoel>	(Man, I commented on this so long ago, I've almost completely forgotten what it was about.)
 108 19:47:46 <sgk_>	hell, you're right
 109 19:48:04 <GregNoel>	always {;-}
 110 19:48:01 <sgk_>	sounds like Cygwin, though, not MinGW
 111 19:48:27 <sgk_>	of course!  we have to have at least *one* constant to rely on in the group...  :-)
 112 19:48:50 <Azverkan>	my guess is that he has both msys and cygwin in his path
 113 19:49:07 <sgk_>	normal node-to-string translation is spitting them out as windows path
 114 19:49:11 <Azverkan>	before -mno-cygwin was added to GCC there was a lot of that
 115 19:49:12 <sgk_>	yeah, i think Brandon is right
 116 19:49:16 <GregNoel>	Since I don't use them, I don't know the difference between MSYS and Cygwin
 117 19:49:32 <Azverkan>	cygwin tries to give windows a posix style interface
 118 19:49:36 <sgk_>	Cygwin is evil evil evil
 119 19:49:38 <Azverkan>	msys tries to make native ports
 120 19:49:58 <GregNoel>	er, I wasn't asking, I was stating
 121 19:50:19 <Azverkan>	cygwin wouldn't be so bad if they were allowed to link against the now mostly unsupported posix runtime for the NT kernel
 122 19:50:57 <sgk_>	or if it had just used the "liberal in what you accept" philosophy and not gagged on native Windows path names
 123 19:51:11 <sgk_>	and if it didn't LIE about being able to support case sensitivity...
 124 19:51:36 <sgk_>	sorry, Cygwin has caused SCons more than a few hassles over the years
 125 19:51:52 <sgk_>	so my battle scars make me a little over-sensitive
 126 19:52:26 <Azverkan>	re the previous bug
 127 19:52:29 <sgk_>	back to 1500:  WONTFIX
 128 19:52:34 <Azverkan>	the shim is the __builtin__.file = _scons_file?
 129 19:52:38 <sgk_>	yes
 130 19:53:24 <GregNoel>	wontfix closes an issue, so I like the idea
 131 19:53:44 <sgk_>	i can go ahead and write up the text and close it
 132 19:53:50 <GregNoel>	OK, I appreciate it
 133 19:53:59 <Azverkan>	either wontfix or invalid with a request for a test case
 134 19:54:24 <GregNoel>	1502?
 135 19:54:33 <sgk_>	1502:  i like 1.x p4
 136 19:54:51 <GregNoel>	done
 137 19:54:55 <sgk_>	and eventually doing it with GetOption()
 138 19:55:03 <GregNoel>	(that was almost too easy)
 139 19:55:20 <sgk_>	statistically, *some* of them have to be...
 140 19:55:28 <sgk_>	1504:  research, VisualStudio, stevenknight
 141 19:55:35 <GregNoel>	done
 142 19:55:51 <sgk_>	1508:  research, VisualStudio, stevenknight
 143 19:55:51 <GregNoel>	although I think those are 'anytime'
 144 19:56:00 <sgk_>	in practice, true
 145 19:56:16 <GregNoel>	in database, true
 146 19:56:24 <sgk_>	if you want to change all VisualStudio tags to anytime, that'd be fine with me
 147 19:56:29 <GregNoel>	1508, done
 148 19:56:33 <sgk_>	or else I'll do it one of these days
 149 19:56:41 <GregNoel>	exactly
 150 19:56:50 <Azverkan>	re 2124: can reproduce with or without the shim installed
 151 19:56:55 <sgk_>	("in database, true" ?  not sure i get the reference, but i like the concept)
 152 19:57:16 <sgk_>	Brandon:  yow, 2124 with the shim is definitely something uninvestigated
 153 19:57:25 <GregNoel>	('anytime' sorts just after 1.0.x right now, so it'll show up on your radar)
 154 19:57:46 <sgk_>	okay
 155 19:58:11 <sgk_>	that makes 2124 relatively high priority in my book
 156 19:58:46 <GregNoel>	Brandon, can you look at it?  And report back next week?
 157 19:58:54 <Azverkan>	yep
 158 19:59:09 <GregNoel>	ok, let's just change the assignment, then
 159 19:59:18 <GregNoel>	er, owner
 160 19:59:40 <sgk_>	cool; many thanks
 161 19:59:57 <GregNoel>	1516, speaking of colorization...
 162 20:00:01 <sgk_>	1516:  colorizer!
 163 20:00:02 <sgk_>	yes
 164 20:01:09 <GregNoel>	If I understand it better now, process spawning === convert to subprocess.
 165 20:01:39 <GregNoel>	As for colorization, I'm color-blind, so it's never made any sense to me.
 166 20:01:40 <sgk_>	yes
 167 20:01:57 <Azverkan>	for greg s/color/blink/
 168 20:02:22 <GregNoel>	So, do we have an issue to convert to subprocess?
 169 20:02:34 <sgk_>	no, there's a subprocess compatibility module now
 170 20:02:45 <GregNoel>	Azverkan, blink-blind?  I don't get it.
 171 20:03:08 <Azverkan>	blinkizer
 172 20:03:16 <sgk_>	but hooking it into subprocess isn't really the right place
 173 20:03:16 <GregNoel>	Yes, but do we already have an issue to hang it on, or should we open one?
 174 20:03:44 <Azverkan>	I believe its also the same part of the multiprocessor buffering
 175 20:03:52 <Azverkan>	related to that is
 176 20:04:03 <GregNoel>	Ah, you're confused.  This issue is to colorize the output; is there another issue for the subprocess conversion?
 177 20:04:10 <Azverkan>	some sort of mechanism for attaching to spawn output
 178 20:04:29 <GregNoel>	Yes, apparently subprocess allows that.
 179 20:04:53 <GregNoel>	It doesn't pump the output to a process, but you can capture the output.
 180 20:05:56 <Azverkan>	subprocess just makes popen less buggy on windows?  afaik it doesn't offer anything above and beyond regular popen?
 181 20:06:32 <sgk_>	i think you're right re: underlying capability
 182 20:06:42 <Azverkan>	once you have the text stream out of popen or subprocess you need some way to install listeners
 183 20:06:51 <sgk_>	it's more about providing a more consistent, unified cross-platform interface
 184 20:07:37 <sgk_>	1516:  since I've already been in the middle of it, keep it with me
 185 20:07:48 <sgk_>	2.x ?
 186 20:07:54 <GregNoel>	ok, both sides?
 187 20:08:12 <Azverkan>	agree with 2.x
 188 20:08:15 <sgk_>	sure
 189 20:08:21 <GregNoel>	colorize+subprocess?
 190 20:08:33 <GregNoel>	2.x, what priority?
 191 20:08:41 <sgk_>	p3
 192 20:08:53 <GregNoel>	done
 193 20:09:10 <GregNoel>	Wow, that finishes this spreadsheet...
 194 20:09:12 <sgk_>	okay, i have to get going
 195 20:09:18 <sgk_>	same time next week?
 196 20:09:26 <GregNoel>	I should as well; cul?
 197 20:09:34 <Azverkan>	sure, later
 198 20:09:37 <GregNoel>	er, hang on...
 199 20:10:13 <GregNoel>	When shall we all meet again?
 200 20:10:13 <GregNoel>	In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
 201 20:10:13 <GregNoel>	Where the place? ...  same time next week?
 202 20:10:13 <GregNoel>	Should we change the default time to this time?
 203 20:10:30 <sgk_>	you 20h00 PDT?
 204 20:10:44 <sgk_>	you mean 20h00 pdt?
 205 20:10:49 <GregNoel>	19h00, same as you
 206 20:11:34 <sgk_>	yes, we've been using this time regularly enough it should become the default
 207 20:11:48 <GregNoel>	OK, I'll take care of that, too.
 208 20:11:52 <Azverkan>	quick question regarding the shim
 209 20:11:57 <GregNoel>	sure
 210 20:12:00 <Azverkan>	it opens with the inherit flag on
 211 20:12:07 <Azverkan>	and some amount of time later it toggles it off?
 212 20:12:29 <GregNoel>	ah, a race...
 213 20:13:13 <sgk_>	yes, since as far as i know, there isn't a way to open it with the inherit flag off
 214 20:13:38 <sgk_>	if i'm wrong, that'd be great
 215 20:13:42 <GregNoel>	it could explain the symptoms, even with the shim enabled.
 216 20:13:40 <Azverkan>	have to research that more and my wife wants to eat now, so later
 217 20:13:56 <GregNoel>	OK, cul
 218 20:14:10 <sgk_>	true
 219 20:14:20 <sgk_>	later
 220 20:14:23 <sgk_>	thanks, guys
 221 20:14:29 <GregNoel>	g'night

BugParty/IrcLog2008-08-04 (last edited 2008-08-05 15:42:38 by ip68-7-77-81)