16:42:23 * bdbaddog (n=bdeegan@adsl-71-131-1-136.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined #scons
17:25:45 * stevenknight (n=stevenkn@69.36.227.130) has joined #scons
17:26:25 GregoryNoel That's three; where's Gary?
17:26:39 stevenknight i think he said he might be late
17:26:42 stevenknight putting the kids to bed
17:26:56 stevenknight bill, you're not spinning tonight?
17:27:22 stevenknight oh, wait, he's greyed out
17:27:30 stevenknight who's the third?
17:28:17 * garyo-home (n=chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #scons
17:28:25 GregoryNoel You, me, Bill, and there's Gary.
17:28:34 stevenknight hi Gary
17:28:50 garyo-home hi guys, I'm here for a little, then I'll have to put the kids to bed, then I'll be back.
17:28:57 GregoryNoel Anybody else here for the bug party?
17:30:09 GregoryNoel OK, the official start is here; shall we proceed?
17:30:16 stevenknight let's go
17:30:24 stevenknight starting with current...
17:30:25 stevenknight 2048
17:30:36 GregoryNoel In the overlaps?
17:31:00 stevenknight the "Current issues" spreadsheet?
17:31:33 GregoryNoel We should do the ones left over from last time first; it overlaps with the current issues
17:31:49 stevenknight okay, point me to the list/spreadsheet you want to work from
17:32:06 garyo-home I guess that would be editlist2008, w/ 1874 first
17:32:14 GregoryNoel yep
17:32:35 stevenknight go ahead, i've scrolled down
17:32:45 garyo-home ok, 1874: hasn't this been fixed multiple times before?
17:33:10 * bdbaddog has quit ("Leaving.")
17:33:12 GregoryNoel Yes
17:33:14 garyo-home I think I fixed it myself a long time ago.
17:33:27 garyo-home Should've made a better test case I guess.
17:33:46 GregoryNoel Bill just left, but he was going to bring it up for discussion on the mailing list
17:34:03 GregoryNoel did it ever happen? I don't remember it.
17:34:13 garyo-home Don't think so.
17:34:33 GregoryNoel And Steven is right that one size does not fit all.
17:34:59 garyo-home I seem to remember that I fixed it by ignoring "suffixes" that were all numeric, that's probably why ".4g" fails that test.
17:35:21 garyo-home Does this just have to be configurable?
17:35:31 GregoryNoel I don't see how
17:35:30 stevenknight I think give it back to Bill and/or recategorize it as a doc issue
17:35:43 GregoryNoel I like doc issue
17:35:52 garyo-home there could be a "force suffix" option or something?
17:36:06 GregoryNoel Hmmm
17:36:09 stevenknight that's File("name-with.odd-suffix")
17:36:31 GregoryNoel good point
17:36:32 stevenknight oh, you mean on the Builder
17:36:46 garyo-home yeah I guess
17:37:00 GregoryNoel OK, a doc issue assigned to??
17:37:14 garyo-home I don't think it's just doc, is it?
17:37:35 GregoryNoel "If you don't like the suffix, use File()"
17:37:56 garyo-home OK, I could live with that for now, but I'd like a better solution for 2.x
17:38:15 GregoryNoel I would, too
17:38:10 stevenknight back to Bill to really discuss on the mailing list
17:38:34 stevenknight and/or doc the File() workaround
17:38:30 GregoryNoel OK, I'll make it, what, research?
17:38:37 stevenknight yeah, research
17:38:40 GregoryNoel done
17:38:45 GregoryNoel next?
17:38:54 stevenknight 1883
17:39:09 stevenknight damn, i answered this in the other spreadsheet as well
17:39:14 stevenknight my comment in editlist2008 is off
17:39:22 stevenknight the last time we put it in we did have instaler issues
17:39:34 GregoryNoel What's up with Nathan?
17:39:37 stevenknight but it was because distutils changed the location to the script/ subdirectory at the same time
17:39:45 stevenknight I don't think it had anything to do with this App Paths thing
17:39:58 stevenknight ???
17:40:01 stevenknight oh, GSoC?
17:40:13 GregoryNoel Yes, we talked about assigning it to him
17:40:39 stevenknight ah, right
17:40:42 garyo-home 1883: what does the patch really do? I can't see it.
17:41:20 stevenknight it adds an entry to the Windows registry
17:41:48 stevenknight IIRC it ends up making it so you can execute scons.bat w/out having to have the directory in %PATH%
17:42:17 stevenknight Nathan has been sending me status reports, but I've not been giving him adequate attention yet
17:42:20 garyo-home That would be good; maybe it sets cmd.exe's AppPath or something I guess
17:42:22 stevenknight so we could definitely assign it to him
17:42:45 garyo-home I never use scons.bat, but I could do so for testing this.
17:42:47 GregoryNoel OK, what's his account?
17:43:15 stevenknight i'll look it up
17:43:20 stevenknight let's move on while i search
17:43:32 garyo-home 1925, then?
17:43:46 GregoryNoel Add it to the spreadsheet when you find it; I'll take care of it later
17:44:01 stevenknight okay
17:44:07 stevenknight 1925: research, me
17:44:24 GregoryNoel done; next?
17:44:32 garyo-home OK, but not for 1.0 though
17:44:53 stevenknight definitely not 1.0
17:45:01 GregoryNoel probably 2.x
17:45:07 stevenknight 1958: Bill's volunteering, consensus research
17:45:29 GregoryNoel done
17:46:11 garyo-home 2000: I say 1.x but not the approach in the patch; should really figure it out.
17:46:28 GregoryNoel when?
17:46:56 garyo-home Low priority, so could be 2.x as far as I care
17:47:02 GregoryNoel 1.x? or move to 2.x?
17:47:35 garyo-home I say 2.x because it'll just slow down real work
17:47:37 stevenknight agree w/Gary, 1.x, low priority... P4?
17:47:46 GregoryNoel p5
17:47:50 stevenknight fair enough
17:47:57 GregoryNoel done; next?
17:47:59 stevenknight do i hear p6?
17:48:08 GregoryNoel (no such!)
17:48:10 garyo-home :-)
17:48:19 stevenknight going once, twice.... sold!
17:48:43 garyo-home ok, 2001? (remove max_drift)
17:48:58 stevenknight 2001: research
17:49:00 GregoryNoel Narrow use; 2.x
17:49:08 garyo-home I don't use it, but it was meant to support NFS.
17:49:26 stevenknight i'm inclined to give it back to Ken and let him lead a ML discussion to find out who's actually using it
17:49:29 stevenknight if anyone
17:49:35 GregoryNoel And NFS now uses deltas, so it doesn't happen any more.
17:49:38 garyo-home Actually Greg if it can give a 25% speedup, I say get rid of it sooner
17:49:50 stevenknight speedup++
17:50:01 garyo-home 1.x, p2?
17:50:12 * stevenknight agrees
17:50:22 GregoryNoel ok
17:50:44 garyo-home 2003 is weird
17:50:46 stevenknight 2003: agree w/Greg, wontfix
17:50:52 stevenknight agree w/Gary, weird
17:51:07 garyo-home wontfix
17:51:11 GregoryNoel done
17:51:37 GregoryNoel last one?
17:51:59 garyo-home This will get fixed someday by Greg+Gary tool rewrite, but what about the near term?
17:52:39 garyo-home We can't use his patch as is, people don't expect CCFLAGS to get clobbered.
17:53:06 GregoryNoel Maybe it should be set by c-common setup, whatever it's called.
17:53:34 GregoryNoel er, no, bad idea
17:53:53 stevenknight hmm, i took a quick look last night and i think his narrow fix of having mingw reset $CCFLAGS solves his specific symptom nicely with little impact
17:54:02 GregoryNoel This happens because one compiler is configured and then another configured on top of it
17:54:15 stevenknight agreed that's the larger issue
17:54:20 garyo-home Right, but what if user sets CCFLAGS and then applies Tool('mingw')?
17:54:35 GregoryNoel He gets what he pays for.
17:54:44 stevenknight they're no worse off than lots of other things that get set
17:54:52 stevenknight $CCCOM, $CFLAGS, etc.
17:54:56 garyo-home Hmm, OK I see your point.
17:55:10 stevenknight all that has to wait until your tool rewrite
17:55:17 garyo-home OK, 1.x then.
17:55:21 stevenknight but we can make this one situation better in the meantime
17:55:26 GregoryNoel OK, what priority?
17:55:36 stevenknight p2 or p3
17:55:58 garyo-home p3, it's only that one tool in that one case
17:56:02 GregoryNoel done; on to the next spreadsheet
17:56:02 stevenknight okay
17:56:24 stevenknight Current Issues, right?
17:56:26 garyo-home I like Ken's patch in 2048
17:56:44 stevenknight gary, you think 1.0?
17:56:51 GregoryNoel destab
17:57:00 stevenknight as in 0.98.5?
17:57:01 GregoryNoel destableizing
17:57:06 stevenknight right, i'm worried abou stability on it
17:57:12 garyo-home Look at the code; it only does changes that one case. But 1.x is fine w/ me.
17:57:16 GregoryNoel (ok, I still can't spell)
17:58:02 garyo-home 1953, my current bete noire...
17:58:03 GregoryNoel 1.x, what priority?
17:58:05 stevenknight 1.x, give it to me for integration
17:58:20 garyo-home 2048: p3?
17:58:24 stevenknight p2, i agree that the patch is nice (modulo stability)
17:58:32 garyo-home ok, p2
17:58:36 GregoryNoel 2048, ok
17:59:13 garyo-home Can we put 1953 in 1.0?
17:59:35 garyo-home At least to see if that fixes the problem?
17:59:37 stevenknight that code looks safe enough to me
17:59:52 stevenknight and there needs to be a 0.98.5 for other reasons anyway
17:59:55 stevenknight 1.0, p2
17:59:55 GregoryNoel it was off the top of my head; don't take it literally
18:00:07 stevenknight right, but it's clear a problem
18:00:24 stevenknight and you point to the right sort of solution, even if the code ends up a little different
18:00:26 garyo-home and it *has* to be a threading thing because otherwise that error could not occur
18:00:28 GregoryNoel it still leaves the race, it just covers up the symptoms
18:00:36 garyo-home Greg: that is true.
18:01:05 stevenknight an ounce of image is worth a pound of performance... ;-)
18:01:33 garyo-home I'll be back in a bit -- at least you're at the part of the spreadsheet where I did my homework now :-)
18:01:34 GregoryNoel Gary, have you tried it?
18:02:21 GregoryNoel Why don't we assign it to you for research; if it seems to kill the problem, we'll try it for 1.0
18:02:30 GregoryNoel And he's gone....
18:02:37 stevenknight yeah
18:02:40 stevenknight research, me
18:03:00 GregoryNoel OK, I'm sure Gary will be willing to test it
18:03:11 stevenknight agree about the underlying race for NodeInfo still being there; I'll add comments to that effect
18:03:24 stevenknight in get_ninfo(), not just here
18:03:39 stevenknight and/or in NodeInfo.__init__() or some such
18:03:48 GregoryNoel works for me
18:03:59 stevenknight okay, looks like we covered the next set of overlaps
18:04:03 stevenknight 1874, 1883
18:04:05 GregoryNoel skipping the overlaps to 1967?
18:04:27 stevenknight right 1967
18:04:30 stevenknight consensus future
18:04:37 GregoryNoel done
18:04:40 stevenknight do we need an assigee?
18:05:03 GregoryNoel for that far in the future? no, I don't think so. what priority?
18:05:18 stevenknight leave it p3
18:05:24 GregoryNoel done;next?
18:05:41 stevenknight skip 2000, 2001
18:05:49 GregoryNoel I'll take 2007
18:05:50 stevenknight 2007: 1.x, you
18:05:53 GregoryNoel done
18:06:19 stevenknight 2010: 2.x consensus
18:06:21 stevenknight leave unassigned?
18:06:28 GregoryNoel yes to both
18:06:57 GregoryNoel I want to get a keyword for all of these so we can triage them further as a group.
18:07:06 GregoryNoel and assign them then
18:07:05 stevenknight good idea
18:07:18 stevenknight 2014: i'm torn
18:07:39 GregoryNoel I don't understand why it's needed
18:08:04 stevenknight right now we assume that no one else has corrupted the tree in between runs
18:08:08 stevenknight not unreasonably
18:08:10 GregoryNoel either you trust the sig or you don't.
18:08:51 GregoryNoel if you don't trust it, always recalc, fine.
18:09:05 GregoryNoel but if you're going to try for optimizations, you have to trust it
18:09:21 stevenknight hmm, i do see your point
18:09:26 GregoryNoel that's why Decider() has such a range of options
18:09:31 stevenknight this was a bigger problem back when we were using build signatures
18:09:51 GregoryNoel but they're going away
18:10:00 stevenknight and we could use signatures from the .sconsign file assuming no file corruption
18:10:01 GregoryNoel don't throw good effort after bad
18:10:40 GregoryNoel Uh, which file corrupted? .sconign?
18:11:06 stevenknight no, you build
18:11:28 stevenknight then someone corrupts your .obj file (or copies a trojan into it)
18:11:48 stevenknight and we could see the .c file hasn't change, so we don't rebuild the .obj
18:12:06 stevenknight but then *use* that corrupt .obj to link a .exe
18:12:13 stevenknight so this verification would be
18:12:15 GregoryNoel The sig wouldn't match, oh, I see,
18:12:29 stevenknight right
18:12:38 GregoryNoel The new sig wouldn't match, but the old one could.
18:12:40 GregoryNoel hmmm
18:13:22 stevenknight right, it starts to use the .sconsign signatures as a weak bill-of-materials of sorts
18:14:01 stevenknight before you use the built targets from last time, please make sure that you think they really do match what you thought you built
18:13:49 GregoryNoel How about a Decider(always-recalc)?
18:14:17 stevenknight something like that
18:14:34 GregoryNoel I could understand that but I'd do it as a Decider()
18:14:42 stevenknight give it to me, 1.x, p3
18:14:49 GregoryNoel done
18:15:13 stevenknight if it fits in Decider I'll do it that way
18:15:58 stevenknight hmm, looks like i'll be able to go beyond 6:30 tonight
18:16:12 GregoryNoel Keep pushing...
18:16:16 stevenknight we're stuck in traffic
18:16:32 stevenknight likely because of an accident... :-(
18:17:05 GregoryNoel (I'll tell you my stuck-in-traffic story some day)
18:16:36 GregoryNoel 2015
18:17:06 stevenknight 1.x, me, p3
18:17:47 GregoryNoel ok, getting that scan for the dir source really needs to be fixed
18:18:46 GregoryNoel 2016, consensus
18:19:22 stevenknight yeah, 2.x
18:19:50 GregoryNoel 2020: this isn't tool config, why our plan?
18:20:31 GregoryNoel oops, screen update, nevermind
18:21:03 stevenknight sorry, what are we on?
18:21:08 stevenknight 2016 is consensus 2.x, yes?
18:21:12 stevenknight and I have 2018 next
18:21:52 GregoryNoel Yeah, the spreadsheet is giving me partial screen updates
18:22:06 stevenknight okay
18:22:33 stevenknight i think 2018 is pretty straightforward
18:22:43 stevenknight 1.x seems reasonable
18:22:45 GregoryNoel I'm pretty sure that blanks are compressed out of all cmd-STR variables
18:23:12 GregoryNoel But I've broken the case where I was doing it, so I'm not positive.
18:23:10 stevenknight if you want to confirm that I'll support INVALID
18:23:24 GregoryNoel me, research?
18:23:45 stevenknight done
18:24:15 GregoryNoel 2020, you, as specified, done
18:24:15 stevenknight 2020: me, 1.x, p...2?
18:24:49 stevenknight 2021: 1.x, anyone else's choice of priority
18:25:07 GregoryNoel These File/Dir conflicts are new; something started them. p2 is probbly OK
18:25:40 stevenknight 2021 is actually the --debug=time + --interactive bug, not File/Dir
18:26:18 GregoryNoel Yeah, I don't type fast enough
18:26:49 stevenknight no problem, just want to make sure we're getting right info on the right bug
18:27:01 GregoryNoel 2021 p2 unless it's not simple, then p3 or p4
18:27:20 stevenknight agreed
18:27:23 GregoryNoel done
18:27:55 stevenknight 2022: agree w/your plan, let David prioritize it relative to his time and other Fortran work
18:28:04 GregoryNoel 2023, you research for dup?
18:28:37 stevenknight yes
18:28:49 GregoryNoel 2022, funny screen updates again, done
18:29:30 stevenknight no problem
18:29:33 stevenknight 2029:
18:29:46 GregoryNoel not a lot of yacc users, 2.x?
18:29:59 stevenknight i could go for that
18:30:13 GregoryNoel assign to Gary?
18:30:14 stevenknight we can always move it up if there's a groundswell
18:30:20 GregoryNoel agreed
18:30:21 stevenknight yes
18:30:24 GregoryNoel done
18:31:00 * GregoryNoel stays silent for 2036
18:31:05 stevenknight 2036: consensus 2.x p2
18:31:19 GregoryNoel done
18:31:23 stevenknight i completely agree we're way overdue for a better way to do this
18:31:37 stevenknight assign it to either me or you and we can work out a reasonable interface between us
18:31:45 stevenknight i'd be happy to implement, though
18:32:08 GregoryNoel I don't like DESTDIR; too inflexible, but we can discuss that elsewhere
18:32:21 stevenknight i think you're right
18:32:29 stevenknight 2037: TASK
18:32:36 stevenknight it's not product code at all
18:33:03 stevenknight let Sohail check it in himself and you (or anyone else) can hack on it as necessary
18:33:12 GregoryNoel done; I fiddled with it today
18:33:14 garyo-home hi guys I'm back
18:33:24 stevenknight hey there
18:33:33 stevenknight we're up to 2041 on the "Current issues" spreadsheet
18:33:38 GregoryNoel and there's some nice test code in the attachment; Hi, Gary...
18:33:53 stevenknight just in time for you to weigh in on it, it's an intelc.py thing
18:34:03 garyo-home OK. yep, that sounds like mine.
18:34:32 stevenknight okay, we got past the traffic slowdown, i think i've got another 5-10 minutes
18:34:52 garyo-home Don't know if it has to be as complicated as that patch though; I might just add an option so user could specify if needed.
18:35:03 stevenknight 2041: assign to gary, 1.x, p...3?
18:35:05 garyo-home Anyway assign it to me, 1.x, p2 or p3
18:35:11 GregoryNoel p3
18:35:24 GregoryNoel done
18:35:46 stevenknight skip next (OVERLAP)
18:35:47 stevenknight 2043
18:35:50 garyo-home 2043 seems like a side project to me
18:35:56 stevenknight 2.x, p4
18:36:01 stevenknight we have plenty of real work to do
18:36:05 garyo-home OK, 2.x p4
18:36:21 GregoryNoel done; when shall we three meet again?
18:36:25 stevenknight if they want to actually do the work i'd be okay with it going in earlier, too
18:36:36 GregoryNoel in lightning, thunder, or in rain?
18:36:38 stevenknight 2044:
18:36:45 stevenknight 1.x, p2 (if not p1)?
18:36:48 garyo-home Yes, 2044 should be 1.x or earlier
18:36:54 stevenknight i'd say 1.0 but it's potentially destabilizing
18:36:54 GregoryNoel uh, that was a left parenthesis...
18:36:57 garyo-home UNC paths are important
18:37:20 stevenknight if you want we could make it 1.0 and i could take a look at how bad it would be
18:37:36 stevenknight i can always decide to push it back
18:37:42 GregoryNoel research? I don't want to commit to 1.0
18:37:58 garyo-home I can run it here too. Let's just look at the code carefully before putting it in 1.0.
18:38:06 stevenknight i'd prefere 1.x over research to make sure it stays on more visible lists
18:38:17 GregoryNoel 1.x p1?
18:38:19 stevenknight research suggests "back burner" to me w.r.t. actually allocating time
18:38:19 garyo-home Yes, don't make it research
18:38:24 stevenknight yeah, 1.x p1
18:38:33 garyo-home OK w/ that
18:38:39 GregoryNoel No, research means "figure this out and assign it to a milestone"
18:39:05 GregoryNoel Can we meet again tomorrow briefly if we don't finish today?
18:39:05 garyo-home Greg: technically you're right but we're close to 1.0 now so there's not much research time left
18:39:09 stevenknight i agree conceptually, but in practice I deal with 1.0 before research
18:39:28 garyo-home Yes, I can do tomorrow night for a little while. I'll finish the spreadsheet too.
18:39:48 GregoryNoel Just for this spreadsheet
18:40:00 stevenknight 2046: consensus 1.x p4
18:40:03 stevenknight i can do tomorrow
18:40:05 garyo-home right, that's the last bit: 2046 to the end
18:40:27 stevenknight okay, last few minutes for me
18:40:36 stevenknight tomorrow night: 17:00 or 17:30?
18:40:52 garyo-home 17:00 is better for me I think
18:40:58 stevenknight that's fine for me
18:41:00 GregoryNoel either is fine by me
18:41:04 stevenknight 17:00
18:41:09 garyo-home ok, done, see you then
18:41:13 stevenknight sounds good
18:41:15 stevenknight many thanks
18:41:24 GregoryNoel 17h00 to use the standard, such as it is...
18:41:34 stevenknight 17h00... :-)
18:41:38 garyo-home right.
18:41:39 GregoryNoel 2047?
18:41:57 garyo-home That's the one that a user was complaining about, right?
18:42:09 garyo-home How about warning instead of erroring?
18:42:11 stevenknight yeah
18:42:29 GregoryNoel I'll buy a warning
18:42:36 stevenknight 1.0?
18:42:42 GregoryNoel hmmm
18:43:02 garyo-home As long as adding the warning and keeping going is easy, then 1.0, else 1.x.
18:43:05 stevenknight i'm more comfortable with 1.x, but this is pretty annoying
18:43:26 stevenknight me, 1.0, p2
18:43:32 GregoryNoel 1.x p1; if he finishes early, we can reconsider
18:43:33 garyo-home Put it in for 1.0 but if it gets tricky then reschedule for 1.x
18:43:36 stevenknight if it looks risky i'll push it out
18:43:44 stevenknight agreed
18:43:53 GregoryNoel which?
18:43:59 stevenknight coming up to the bus stop, catch you guys tomorrow
18:44:01 stevenknight 1.0
18:44:13 garyo-home ok, have a good night Steven!
18:44:17 stevenknight 2047: 1.0, p2
18:44:18 GregoryNoel Let's pick up here; cul
18:44:18 stevenknight l8r
18:44:22 * stevenknight has quit ("Leaving")
18:44:24 garyo-home (pun not intended)
18:44:47 garyo-home ok Greg, I'll see you tomorrow as well.
18:44:54 GregoryNoel OK, cul
18:45:02 garyo-home bye

BugParty/IrcLog2008-05-19 (last edited 2008-05-20 19:16:20 by GregNoel)