09:01:26 * stevenknight (n=stevenkn@c-69-181-234-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #scons
09:01:41 stevenknight good morning...
09:01:43 Greg_Noel stevenknight, hello
09:01:55 Greg_Noel Nobody else here, yet?
09:01:59 CoryCohen Hi
09:02:09 stevenknight CoryCohen: hi
09:02:09 Greg_Noel Hello, you here for the bug party?
09:02:18 CoryCohen Yeah, just to lurk really.
09:02:25 CoryCohen Did you see me email to the dev list?
09:02:48 Greg_Noel probably; what was the subject?
09:02:59 stevenknight yeah, the object file scanner for link dependencies?
09:03:03 CoryCohen Automatic link dependency generation using nm.
09:03:23 Greg_Noel Yeah, that's on my queue to answer after the bug party.
09:03:33 CoryCohen Ok. I'll be patient then. :-)
09:03:46 Greg_Noel You probably have the scanner attached at the wrong place.
09:03:52 stevenknight my initial reaction: +1
09:03:53 CoryCohen You guys have got plenty to do today it looks like.
09:04:16 Greg_Noel But no quorum yet
09:04:29 stevenknight i think you're just not setting up the scanner quite right
09:04:41 stevenknight scanning generated files works just fine for things like generated .h files
09:04:52 stevenknight but it can be a little non-obvious how to do it
09:04:56 CoryCohen That's likely. I just started using SCons.
09:05:07 stevenknight in principle scanning objects should be like scanning generated .h files
09:06:27 CoryCohen How much more is there to it then: linkscan = Scanner(function=mylinkscan, skeys=['.o'])
09:06:38 CoryCohen env.Append(SCANNERS=linkscan)
09:08:20 stevenknight you also have to hook it up to the specific Builder involved
09:08:38 stevenknight scanning for dependencies is not purely a function of the source file type (i.e., the .o suffix)
09:08:54 CoryCohen Oh... The example had a Command builder, but I didn't think that was relevant.
09:08:54 stevenknight it's always done within the context of a specific target file that's being generated
09:09:14 CoryCohen Is there some magic I use to get the default object builder?
09:09:18 stevenknight the dependencies that you generate from a .o file are appropriate for linking into an executable
09:09:26 CoryCohen Yes.
09:09:34 stevenknight but they'd be different if you were doing something else with the .o file
09:09:47 CoryCohen (nods)
09:09:53 stevenknight yeah, "magic" is right...
09:10:12 stevenknight it's not something that's as easily configurable as it should be
09:10:48 stevenknight hang on a sec... looking...
09:10:53 CoryCohen Ok.
09:12:06 stevenknight in Tool/__init__.py, there are create{Prog,StaticLib,SharedLib,Object}Builder() functions
09:12:23 stevenknight that create the default builders for those types of things
09:12:38 stevenknight you can grep in Tool/*.py for examples of different tool modules that use them to add additional things
09:12:56 CoryCohen Great. Thanks.
09:13:01 stevenknight suffixes, emitters, etc.
09:13:20 stevenknight there may be some additional surgery required, but keep asking when you get blocked
09:13:36 stevenknight Greg: looks like it might be me and you again
09:13:45 Greg_Noel Yeah
09:13:49 stevenknight shall we get started?
09:14:00 Greg_Noel I only have one new point after last time
09:14:17 stevenknight ?new point
09:14:44 Greg_Noel I was going over the issues and I noticed that 1872 was submitted by David
09:15:24 Greg_Noel I hadn't noticed that the first time
09:15:41 Greg_Noel With that the case, I propose to give it to him
09:15:53 stevenknight +1
09:16:19 Greg_Noel Then as far as I know, there's nothing that we didn't discuss last time
09:16:29 stevenknight i was scanning editlist2008 before and had one change of heart
09:16:38 Greg_Noel Which?
09:16:48 stevenknight Bill's argument that we add the BuildDir() deprecation warning for 1.0 makes sense to me
09:17:09 stevenknight that's #1906
09:17:22 Greg_Noel I think it's too soon
09:17:42 stevenknight for just a warning?
09:18:12 Greg_Noel Well, I don't use it, so I won't fight it, but ...
09:18:31 Greg_Noel ... those that do could be annoyed.
09:18:57 stevenknight true
09:19:23 stevenknight but they'll be annoyed when it happens in 1.x, too
09:19:25 Greg_Noel Given that it's so misunderstood, how many users do you think it has?
09:19:40 stevenknight excellent question
09:19:57 HM2 Can anyone tell me how I can get scons to activate SConstruct files in subdirectories?
09:20:01 stevenknight probably fairly common
09:20:13 Greg_Noel Then they need time to switch.
09:20:16 stevenknight HM2: hang on a sec while we finish this thread
09:20:30 HM2 k..
09:21:11 stevenknight how much time?
09:21:20 Greg_Noel There have been deprecation warnings for Copy() ==> Clone() for a year
09:21:45 Greg_Noel I don't think it really needs more than a few months, but 1.1 sounds reasonable.
09:22:52 Greg_Noel (See, I think there will be a 1.1.)
09:23:09 stevenknight guess I can live with that, provided our "THIS WILL CHANGE" warnings in the doc are prominent enough
09:23:10 stevenknight are they?
09:23:19 stevenknight agree re: there being a likely 1.1
09:23:46 Greg_Noel I think you need the BIG CAPS, but yes; I certainly see them.
09:24:06 Greg_Noel ... but then, I'm a reader, I actually _see_ what's in the print.
09:24:30 stevenknight that definitely differentiates you from the great mass of us who mostly just skim... :-)
09:24:34 CoryCohen It is two rather small sentences.
09:25:14 stevenknight CoryCohen: good point
09:25:43 stevenknight so let's leave 1906 for 1.x
09:25:59 stevenknight but add another item for 0.98.1 to enhance the warnings in the doc:
09:26:08 Greg_Noel I actually like the schedule that's in the wiki...
09:26:13 stevenknight indented "IMPORTANT NOTE:" block quotes or something
09:26:26 Greg_Noel ... one release with a doc warning
09:26:47 Greg_Noel ... one release with a compile warning that can be turned off
09:26:54 Greg_Noel ... one release with a compile warning that can't be turned off
09:27:14 Greg_Noel ... one release with a fatal error
09:27:48 Greg_Noel The block quote for emphasis sounds reasonable
09:28:01 stevenknight where "one release" is a major (x.y) release, not something like 0.98.1, yes?
09:28:18 Greg_Noel That's minor release, but yes
09:28:32 stevenknight okay
09:28:58 stevenknight so i'll open a 0.98.1 issue to add block quotes
09:29:06 stevenknight and 1906 is 1.x
09:29:46 Greg_Noel Remember, we were figuring a new release, whether major or minor, three to four times a year, so three to four months each
09:30:13 stevenknight so minimum case that's about a year of lead time
09:30:15 stevenknight should be reasonable
09:32:02 stevenknight HM2: SConstruct files in subdirectories
09:32:08 stevenknight there's nothing magic about the file name 'SConscript'
09:32:21 stevenknight you should be able to just put
09:32:28 stevenknight SConscript("subdir/SConstruct")
09:32:36 HM2 ...right
09:32:39 stevenknight in any file and it will read up the subsidiary
09:32:47 HM2 well atm i'm still trying to get a seperate builddir
09:33:44 stevenknight the tricky part with subsidiary SConstruct files is the .sconsign files that store the build information
09:34:22 stevenknight separate builddir: do you mean a separate build variant, or a directory in which you want to stick all your object files from across the project?
09:34:28 HM2 is SConstruct == SConscript?
09:34:58 stevenknight all SCons config files are just Python scripts that get executed to set up the dependencies and stuff
09:35:00 HM2 well ideally i'd like to have src/some/random/path mimicked in both build/some/random/path and include/some/random/path
09:35:16 stevenknight the only magic name is SConstruct, which we use as the top level of the build
09:35:26 stevenknight everything else is just convention
09:35:41 stevenknight you include them in the build by calling SConscript(), but they can be named anything
09:36:08 HM2 ;(
09:37:08 Greg_Noel HM2, builddir doesn't do dual mimicry
09:37:40 stevenknight actually it does (or is supposed to); what would the mimicked include/some/random/path be used for?
09:38:10 stevenknight if it doesn't have any actual built targets then SCons may not "realize" that you intend files to physically show up there
09:38:30 Greg_Noel To construct the install tree; we've been at this point before
09:38:38 HM2 hmm
09:38:54 HM2 this is odd
09:39:11 stevenknight ??? oh, discusing this before I showed up?
09:39:19 Greg_Noel What builddir does is create a virtual copy of the source tree so you can build a variant in it.
09:39:27 HM2 i use env = Environment (CPPPATH = 'include' in my "src" dir and it builds fine...include is ../include relative to "src"
09:39:50 HM2 but with a build dir it expects to find build/include
09:40:09 Greg_Noel No, we've been 'round it on the mailing list; that's what (forgot name) really wants from builddir when he says it doesn't work like it should
09:41:04 stevenknight okay, I thought this might have been a quick question to handle
09:41:11 stevenknight but it sounds like we need to go into more depth
09:41:19 stevenknight didn't mean to derail the bug dicussion to this extent
09:41:21 HM2 scons doesn't correct include paths when it uses a build dir?
09:41:41 Greg_Noel HM2, if you made an exact copy of the source, then built in it, that's what you'd expect.
09:42:00 stevenknight Greg's exactly right
09:42:06 HM2 ah it builds!
09:42:22 HM2 at last some sanity
09:42:30 Greg_Noel no quorum, why not?
09:42:50 stevenknight hmm, that might be the first time I've heard "sanity" used in a discussion of BuildDir()... :-)
09:42:57 Greg_Noel concur!
09:43:12 HM2 and it didn't copy my source files!
09:43:13 HM2 wowza
09:43:24 stevenknight HM2: you're using duplicate=0?
09:43:28 HM2 yes
09:43:34 stevenknight yeah, that's the way it should work, then
09:44:01 HM2 right, 1 more question, how can I get it to pass multiple source files to gcc (or the compiler) at once
09:44:10 HM2 possibly?
09:44:13 stevenknight ah, batch builders...!
09:44:14 HM2 with Object()?
09:44:20 Greg_Noel can't, see issue 1086
09:44:26 stevenknight yes
09:44:42 stevenknight you'd have to basically do your own custom Builder or Command right now
09:45:18 stevenknight we're discussing how to extend our model to support it more naturally
09:45:34 HM2 I see
09:45:50 HM2 doesn't python support nested lists? seems the obvious way to do it
09:46:05 stevenknight you can pretty easily set up a custom Builder of command line that uses $SOURCES to get more than one source file on the command line
09:46:06 Greg_Noel ah, er, um, Java
09:46:08 * JimRandall (n=jim@66.119.167.101) has joined #scons
09:46:22 Greg_Noel JimRandall, you're late....
09:46:24 stevenknight the trick is that SCons won't (by default) realize that multiple .o files get created from it
09:46:51 JimRandall Indeed - better late than never :)
09:47:00 stevenknight but Jim's here! better than some others...
09:47:05 stevenknight yes
09:47:17 Greg_Noel No quorum, so we've been chatting...
09:47:36 HM2 stevenknight : no i mean multiple .c files into one .o file
09:47:44 Greg_Noel Does three constitute a quorum?
09:47:57 stevenknight most substantive decision so far has been to *not* enable deprecation warnings for BuildDir until 1.x
09:48:15 stevenknight but for 0.98.1 enhance the warnings in the doc with caps or block quotes
09:48:27 JimRandall And maybe a few large arrows
09:48:28 stevenknight I'd say three is sufficient
09:48:28 Greg_Noel (both)
09:48:54 JimRandall Thought I don't use it, so I'd not notice it anyway :)
09:48:59 stevenknight if we keep postponing things waiting for enough people to participate, it'll never happen
09:49:18 Greg_Noel true, shall we start?
09:49:32 stevenknight yes, let's create the momentum and let others catch up to the train
09:49:50 stevenknight once they realize we're making all sorts of decisions they disagree with... :-)
09:50:10 Greg_Noel ok, 449? (shudder)
09:50:37 stevenknight HM2: your best bet right now for multiple .c files into one .o file is to do a custom Command()
09:50:44 stevenknight yes, 449:
09:51:08 Greg_Noel I have to admit I don't understand it
09:51:16 Greg_Noel Gary was carrying this ball
09:51:41 stevenknight 449: future, p3, put gary's name on it
09:51:45 Greg_Noel done
09:51:53 stevenknight if it languishes it's because there isn't enough demand anyway
09:52:03 Greg_Noel 468?
09:52:03 JimRandall aye - doesn't seem that critical
09:52:22 stevenknight 468: how about turning this into a doc issue?
09:52:33 Greg_Noel hmmm... possible
09:52:34 stevenknight just show people how to use atexit for this pattern?
09:52:45 Greg_Noel yes, I like it. done
09:52:50 JimRandall Aye
09:52:51 Greg_Noel when?
09:53:05 stevenknight 1.0
09:53:13 stevenknight with all the other User's Guide things
09:53:24 Greg_Noel ok, I'll make it yours.
09:53:28 stevenknight anything that we can't actually finish by then will get promoted en masse to 1.
09:53:29 stevenknight 1.x
09:53:33 stevenknight yes, mine
09:54:05 Greg_Noel 505, future. _far_ future.
09:54:13 stevenknight skip 484?
09:54:31 Greg_Noel oops
09:54:42 stevenknight 484: 1.x, but I'm not sure who
09:55:09 stevenknight might as well be me if there's no one else obvious
09:55:14 Greg_Noel I'd do it, but I've never hacked that area
09:55:49 stevenknight yeah, and it's one of those tool-incompatibility things that's really easy to fix for one and break others without knowing it... :-/
09:55:51 Greg_Noel I can certainly add a note to explain the problem more clearly; that might make it easier.
09:56:01 HM2 scons -c doesn't kill empty directories in the build directory then?
09:56:06 HM2 even though it creates them
09:56:24 Greg_Noel HM2, nope, not as a rule. unfortunately.
09:56:25 stevenknight HM2: correct, no one's come up with code to do it
09:57:01 Greg_Noel does that work for 484?
09:57:04 stevenknight HM2: it's hard to know when a directory is a build by-product vs. something that people intend to leave there
09:57:05 HM2 odly i'm now getting /build/build/geometry
09:57:25 Greg_Noel Take the 'builddir' out of your subdirs.
09:57:33 HM2 i see
09:57:43 stevenknight 484: 1.x, P3, assign to me, add the note you were talking about
09:57:48 Greg_Noel done
09:57:58 Greg_Noel next 505>
09:58:06 stevenknight 505: i don't think it's that far off
09:58:42 stevenknight and, honestly, it bugs me that waf makes a big deal of having it
09:58:47 Greg_Noel I just see no reason for it, but then, I've used stone-age tools since the stone age
09:58:56 HM2 aweosme
09:59:00 HM2 this is working well
09:59:14 stevenknight HM2: cool, glad to hear it
09:59:26 stevenknight HM2: a little tricky to get set up, but it's slick once everything's in place
09:59:44 * HM2 now has to play with install() ?
09:59:47 Greg_Noel Jim, an opinion? I'll not stand in the way.
09:59:54 stevenknight the build log part of 505 becomes really necessary for continuous integration systems
09:59:59 JimRandall I'm a monochrome kind of guy myself
10:00:16 JimRandall Though I seem to be in the minority there too :)
10:00:18 stevenknight how about splitting 505?
10:00:44 Greg_Noel how?
10:01:00 stevenknight i can see the color being a nice-to-have, but logging is downright useful
10:01:21 stevenknight i guess I don't want to see the latter get pushed out because we're iffy about colorizing output
10:01:28 JimRandall Agreed - logging was one of the very first things I bolted on top of scons
10:01:51 stevenknight how about give it me and mark it research?
10:01:56 Greg_Noel Being a UNIX guy, I just use tee.
10:02:12 stevenknight can't just use tee in a continuous integration system like Buildbot or Pulse
10:02:14 Greg_Noel ok, done, research, steven
10:02:32 Greg_Noel Er, I do, works fine.
10:02:53 stevenknight ???
10:03:09 stevenknight oh, i get it
10:03:16 Greg_Noel trust me, more than one way to skin a cat
10:03:35 stevenknight sorry, i'm thinking of using it in conjunction with -j
10:03:47 stevenknight intermixed error messages
10:03:59 Greg_Noel different problem
10:03:59 JimRandall Now that would be an interesting use of colourization too
10:04:09 stevenknight yeah, you're right, i'm getting them mixed up
10:04:29 stevenknight i was thinking of it as a -j issue because the only time i use it is in buidlbot
10:04:48 stevenknight sorry, i've taken us down a rathole again...
10:04:53 stevenknight 513?
10:05:24 Greg_Noel I think the whole issue of suffixes needs work, but it may not be this issue.
10:05:55 stevenknight agreed
10:06:05 stevenknight i've taken a run at this once or twice but never got far enough
10:07:02 Greg_Noel I suspect this one needs to be closed and a new issue opened that's more focused.
10:07:12 stevenknight it's really dumb, though, that other suffixes can be configure and this one can't
10:07:46 Greg_Noel (they can?)
10:07:59 stevenknight i believe so...
10:08:11 Greg_Noel hmmm...
10:08:11 stevenknight we do support the following variables:
10:08:43 stevenknight $CPPSUFFIXES, $DSUFFIXES, $IDLSUFFIXES, $LATEXSUFFIXES, $LIBSUFFIXES, $FORTRANSUFFIXES...
10:09:20 HM2 I presume to pass environment junk to SConscript()'d files I need to export or something?
10:09:23 stevenknight now i don't remember why I didn't "just solve" this if other languages have a working pattern to copy
10:09:33 HM2 to the environment
10:09:57 stevenknight HM2: yes, check out the Export() function or the export= argument to SConscript()
10:10:09 stevenknight HM2: and Import() on the SConscript side
10:11:08 Greg_Noel I guess I don't know how those work, but I thought it required loading a Tool, and we already load too many of them.
10:11:31 stevenknight back to 513: give it to me, 2.x, p2
10:11:38 Greg_Noel It's that part that I think needs significant speedup.
10:11:45 Greg_Noel ok, done; next?
10:11:48 stevenknight agreed re: speedup
10:11:57 stevenknight it shouldn't require a new tool, just making the existing one smarter
10:12:21 Greg_Noel And maybe some way to configure it _without_ loading all the Tools.
10:12:36 stevenknight 555: this is less crucial with Anatoly's scons.bat fix
10:12:43 HM2 I am very very impressed
10:12:46 stevenknight (agree re: configuration without loading more tools)
10:13:06 Greg_Noel 555, not of interest to a UNIX guy ;-}
10:13:11 stevenknight :-)
10:13:26 HM2 no annoying MACRO_LANGUAGE_GARBAGE, Scons seems clean
10:13:39 stevenknight now that we scons.bat is smarter, 555 should just be part of overall Windows installation fixing
10:13:48 Greg_Noel pick your poison on it; I'll go along
10:13:49 JimRandall sounds good
10:14:03 stevenknight let's just close this one, the Windows installation is recorded elsewhere
10:14:19 stevenknight FIXED by the scons.bat change, dup it to the one I just integrated
10:14:27 stevenknight let me get a number for you...
10:15:18 stevenknight 555 is dup 1882
10:15:40 stevenknight 561:
10:15:44 Greg_Noel typing ahead, 561 said CVS('subdir/file')
10:16:13 Greg_Noel rather than 'CVS(.)' n the subdir
10:16:25 Greg_Noel oops, modulo quoting
10:16:26 stevenknight ah! okay, i get it
10:16:28 stevenknight INVALID
10:16:31 Greg_Noel done
10:16:52 stevenknight 633: windows installation
10:16:53 Greg_Noel skip 646
10:17:19 Greg_Noel oops, I'm off again.
10:17:51 Greg_Noel yes, defer until we know about GSoC project
10:17:58 stevenknight agreed
10:18:49 Greg_Noel 646
10:19:04 Greg_Noel (been so long I've forgotten this)
10:19:34 stevenknight 646: 2.x, me, p3
10:19:57 stevenknight we're just not consistent about how we do this searching-for-tools thing
10:20:25 Greg_Noel I'll add a note to it; should be possible with Dir('bin')
10:20:47 Greg_Noel 648
10:20:48 stevenknight okay, cool
10:21:23 stevenknight 648: I agree with you: 1.x, p4
10:21:23 Greg_Noel DOS, ick.
10:21:33 JimRandall 648 not too hard to do, and would be handy
10:21:48 JimRandall Can send that one to me.
10:21:54 stevenknight Jim, you interested? If not, I might be able to look at it as part of..
10:21:54 Greg_Noel done, both
10:21:55 stevenknight okay...
10:22:06 stevenknight 659:
10:22:50 stevenknight more windows command line, Jim you okay with taking this one too?
10:23:09 JimRandall Aye, that windows?
10:23:15 * bdbaddog2007 (n=Tiger@adsl-71-142-98-36.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #scons
10:23:27 stevenknight Bill!
10:23:33 Greg_Noel Stylishly late?
10:23:43 stevenknight we gave you lots and lots and LOTS of action items... :-)
10:23:53 CoryCohen Sorry, bit late here... 659 works just fine for me.
10:23:57 bdbaddog2007 G'morning.. Yes weekend mornings are difficult for me.
10:24:32 stevenknight CoryCohen: are you under Cygwin?
10:24:36 CoryCohen Windows, cygwin, cut-and-pasted the test case.
10:24:37 Greg_Noel So it's fixed now, by something other that us?
10:24:44 stevenknight no, i don't think it's fixed
10:25:02 CoryCohen The shell should not care about the space (or lack thereof).
10:25:05 stevenknight under cygwin you're using their UNIX-shell derivative
10:25:14 CoryCohen I'm deeply suspicious of a not-real bash shell.
10:25:17 stevenknight i think this is about using Windows' cmd.exe
10:25:43 CoryCohen Yeah. That's mote likely, but the reporter appears to have ls, etc.
10:26:09 stevenknight ah, true
10:26:15 stevenknight maybe it *is* fixed then...
10:26:25 CoryCohen Not that I'm against fixing it, but I think it's the shell that broken.
10:26:25 stevenknight hang, on, let me boot up my Windows laptop
10:26:34 JimRandall Agreed - it doesn't run under plain vanilla windows
10:26:34 stevenknight i'll test it on a non-Cygwin system while we move on
10:26:51 CoryCohen Ok.
10:26:54 JimRandall the /dev/null
10:27:08 JimRandall It can't find that file for some reason :)
10:28:08 Greg_Noel 695: I'm not sure get_contents is the right API to expose
10:28:21 stevenknight 662: dup 1882
10:28:42 stevenknight 695: agree w/Greg
10:28:49 Greg_Noel 662: done
10:29:35 stevenknight 695: I'd prefer to expose something called read() so it looks like a Python file handle
10:29:56 bdbaddog2007 should we just make a note on the bug, and open a feature request bug with what you want to do for 2.x ?
10:30:05 stevenknight sounds good
10:30:07 bdbaddog2007 695 that is, and close it ?
10:30:28 Greg_Noel ok, done (but note that Value already has read)
10:31:04 Greg_Noel 720
10:31:57 Greg_Noel Ah, I think you're right about Rob; Mark Flacy for Java.
10:32:52 stevenknight 659: it works even under vanilla Windoze
10:32:55 stevenknight FIXED
10:33:04 stevenknight 720: agree re: Rob
10:33:16 stevenknight and Mark (if he's interested)
10:33:45 stevenknight Greg, would you either approach them yourself, or be a burr under my saddle for me to do it?
10:33:52 Greg_Noel I'll write them.
10:33:55 stevenknight I suck at staying on-task with that sort of things...
10:34:11 Greg_Noel Me, too, but I have a nag list...
10:34:28 stevenknight okay, on to 2008?
10:34:34 Greg_Noel I'll also ask Rob if he thinks it's fixed.
10:34:39 Greg_Noel yes, 2008
10:34:40 stevenknight cool
10:35:06 Greg_Noel 1872
10:35:16 stevenknight 1872: consensus 2.x, p2
10:35:27 Greg_Noel I noticed this was from David, so I recanted.
10:36:02 stevenknight meaning you're okay with that consensus?
10:36:28 Greg_Noel No, I originally suggested 2.x; I recanted and now suggest 1.x.
10:36:44 stevenknight oh, I see
10:36:57 Greg_Noel I'm still ok with 2.x, but if we're giving David things to do...
10:37:34 Greg_Noel Why not 2.x and ask him if he thinks it can be 1.x?
10:37:41 stevenknight sure, if he's up for it. 1.x. worst that happens is we end up pushing it out
10:37:46 stevenknight i'd say go the other way
10:37:52 Greg_Noel ok, done.
10:37:58 stevenknight make sure we at least consider it for 1.x and push out if need be
10:38:10 stevenknight instead of having things on the 2.x list that we don't consider pulling in
10:38:46 Greg_Noel 1873
10:38:56 stevenknight 1873: 1.x, p2
10:39:07 Greg_Noel Ouch. You sure?
10:39:23 stevenknight i think trying to do something more friendly with this stuff sooner rather than later is important
10:39:29 Greg_Noel ok, done.
10:39:43 stevenknight not sure if it wil actually make it by then, but we should try
10:40:03 Greg_Noel 1874
10:40:07 bdbaddog2007 :)
10:40:17 bdbaddog2007 I'm not sure my bug report on this one captured the issue.
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10:40:48 Greg_Noel yes, it did. I just don't see any general solution.
10:40:55 stevenknight right
10:41:11 bdbaddog2007 I link a binary against libtcl8.4.so, which needs to be installed in a directory which is the LIBPATH, scons doesn't install it prior to the link so link fails.
10:41:15 Greg_Noel How can you tell when the dot is a suffix or part of the name.
10:41:20 stevenknight always adding the suffix is wrong for some configurations. not adding the suffix is wrong for some configurations
10:41:40 bdbaddog2007 this is specifically for shared library names.
10:42:13 Greg_Noel Well, is it the same for .dylib? .pylib? .dll?
10:42:30 Greg_Noel Too many variations.
10:42:48 bdbaddog2007 this is for shared libraries found by findlib
10:43:16 bdbaddog2007 where it trys a number of name variations.
10:43:30 bdbaddog2007 with and without suffix, but in this case doesn't try suffix.
10:44:20 Greg_Noel Does the workaround work?
10:45:11 stevenknight oh, okay, so this is in Scanner/Prog.py, yes?
10:45:31 bdbaddog2007 hold on lemme bring up the file.
10:45:51 bdbaddog2007 actually if you want we can defer this bug til later.
10:46:09 stevenknight yeah, i found it
10:46:11 Greg_Noel yes, table, discuss in mailing list.
10:46:26 stevenknight it's a real bug
10:46:41 stevenknight table and discuss
10:46:53 Greg_Noel 1897, dup, three agreed
10:47:12 stevenknight you mean 1879, yes?
10:47:14 bdbaddog2007 1879 right?
10:47:32 Greg_Noel sigh, dyslexia...
10:47:53 stevenknight dyslexics of the world untie!
10:48:14 stevenknight (I get to say that because both my wife and daughter are...)
10:48:31 Greg_Noel makes sense to me...
10:48:36 stevenknight 1880:
10:49:00 stevenknight 1880: 2.x, drop it even to p4?
10:49:02 Greg_Noel Didn't Gary also report a 1880-ish issue?
10:49:22 stevenknight this is the sort of thing Benoit is really good at tracking down
10:49:38 Greg_Noel good idea, I'll ask him. Next?
10:50:00 stevenknight 1883: much less an issue with the scons.bat patch
10:50:35 stevenknight i'd like to put it under the general windows installation umbrella
10:50:43 Greg_Noel works for me
10:50:46 stevenknight however we decide to actually record that...
10:51:18 bdbaddog2007 wiki page? or a bug which depends on other bugs ?
10:51:24 Greg_Noel Why don't I create a keyword?
10:51:30 bdbaddog2007 I usually like the bug which depends on other bugs..
10:51:49 stevenknight i like both the keyword and the umbrella bug
10:51:59 bdbaddog2007 even better..
10:52:00 bdbaddog2007 :)
10:52:01 Greg_Noel ok, I'll work something up
10:52:04 Greg_Noel next?
10:52:05 stevenknight thanks
10:52:35 stevenknight 1885: see if Rob Managan will take it?
10:52:39 Greg_Noel I'll ask Rob
10:52:44 stevenknight done
10:52:46 Greg_Noel next
10:53:37 stevenknight 1889: consensus research
10:53:41 Greg_Noel we've been seeing a bunch of these lately; there was another on the mailing list day before yesterday.
10:53:50 bdbaddog2007 yes saw that.
10:53:58 Greg_Noel research, who?
10:54:15 stevenknight Jim, you had some exposure to the problem...?
10:54:19 JimRandall Aye - it bit me
10:54:28 JimRandall Tried to create a reproducible case, but had a hard time
10:54:35 bdbaddog2007 would this be related to the other bug dealing with caching and the contents of a directory changing?
10:54:37 JimRandall seems to be because boost/algorithm (a directory)
10:54:59 JimRandall has a file that refers to the C++ STL file algorithm
10:55:17 JimRandall So possibly a saved result in a .sconsign causing trouble
10:55:23 JimRandall or a scanner issue?
10:55:28 stevenknight hmm, that might be enough to go on
10:55:30 stevenknight probably scanner
10:55:39 stevenknight put my name on it, leave it research
10:55:46 Greg_Noel done, next?
10:56:01 stevenknight 1891: me, research, p3
10:56:13 stevenknight i'm taking a fresh look at the windows support in general
10:56:21 Greg_Noel ok, done, next?
10:56:22 nano- Sorry to bounce in with an OT question. Is there any way to get a list of tools intialized, and their corresponding classes, so you can call exists() from a Configure check.
10:57:15 Greg_Noel 1894, future, three votes
10:57:36 stevenknight nano-: calling env.Tool() on each tool in your list?
10:57:51 stevenknight 1894: done
10:58:20 Greg_Noel skip 1896
10:58:22 stevenknight 1895: i'd say research, gary (overall toolchain refactor)
10:58:28 nano- stevenknight: Huh.. it does? I tried adding a print, but it was at least hidden.
10:58:42 nano- stevenknight: Also, no matter what that method returns, the tool is still generated.
10:58:53 stevenknight nano-: not sure I understand your original question
10:59:30 stevenknight nano-: oh, you mean just get the list of Tool modules *without* having them call generate()?
10:59:33 nano- stevenknight: Well, my original question was to get env.Configure to check if my tools exist, so I wanted to get hold on the tools so that I could access their .exists methods.
10:59:50 nano- Because tools are loaded even if their executables aren't found.
11:00:53 nano- So lets say I have env.Detect(foo) in my exists(env) in my tool, and it returns None, (or whatever) SCons still generates the tool.
11:00:55 Greg_Noel 1895, not sure it's toolchain. Sounds like Detect()
11:01:23 stevenknight nano-: no good public API for doing what you want
11:01:58 stevenknight nano-: look in Tool/__init__.py for things that might get you close
11:02:10 nano- So what's the reason for exists() in Tools anyway? As it doesn't seem to matter what it does.
11:02:31 stevenknight nano-: specifically things like Findtool(), FindAllTools()
11:02:55 stevenknight nano-: exists() is used by the default search, but the presumption is if you call env.Tool() you're specifically asking to have the module applied
11:03:32 Greg_Noel 1895, put on Gary's plate to research?
11:03:39 stevenknight Greg_Noel: 1895, gary, research
11:03:41 nano- Yeah, but env.Tool() will fail if the executables aren't found?
11:03:47 Greg_Noel done
11:03:50 nano- Not that I've noticed.
11:04:17 nano- Oh, nevermind.. go on with your bug talks instead of this one.
11:04:25 stevenknight 1896: skip, alrady integrated
11:04:26 Greg_Noel 1900
11:04:57 Greg_Noel where is the intel() tool used?
11:05:14 ita stevenknight: is the great signature refactoring complete?
11:06:25 Greg_Noel Sigh. Should we just stop? We're getting more interruptions than work done.
11:06:30 stevenknight 1900: not sure, this strikes me as another gary research
11:06:59 stevenknight Greg_Noel: yeah, we should stop -- i have to peel off soon anyway
11:07:03 stevenknight ita: hey Thomas
11:07:13 Greg_Noel ok, I'll put it on his plate.
11:07:14 stevenknight yes, the signature refactoring was released in 0.98.0
11:07:35 stevenknight "complete" is a relative word... :-)
11:07:36 Greg_Noel 1901, done.
11:07:49 ita stevenknight: ok, thanks
11:08:03 stevenknight some side effects are still turning up, but they're in increasingly obscure corner cases
11:09:22 Greg_Noel 1904, I think this just showed up in the wiki; what to do with it otherwise?
11:10:37 Greg_Noel future, what priority?
11:11:03 bdbaddog2007 if he can get some test together could we pull it in? shouldn't impact anything else right?
11:12:07 Greg_Noel We lack a general framework for _any_ testing; without that, this will just change when we do.
11:13:29 bdbaddog2007 looks like he's just created a builder. if we treat it like a builder in the near term and address a testing framework later, would that be acceptable?
11:13:44 stevenknight bdbaddog2007: that could work
11:14:08 Greg_Noel fine with me; Bill, you want to chase it?
11:14:20 bdbaddog2007 sure.
11:14:31 CoryCohen Well guys, the wife says it's time to go get some food. Thanks for the help earlier -- I've made some progress using an emitter, but I still need help. Rather than interrupt your bug tracking, I'll send mail to dev later today.
11:14:39 Greg_Noel ok,I'll assign it to you.
11:14:55 stevenknight CoryCohen: thanks for checking in
11:15:10 CoryCohen It's been educational for me. :-)
11:15:33 CoryCohen Bye!
11:15:54 Greg_Noel 1905, don't know what to suggest.
11:16:42 bdbaddog2007 Float a message on user and dev mailing lists sugguesting retiring this and see what feedback there is?
11:17:04 Greg_Noel Works. Who should send it? Steven?
11:17:15 stevenknight probably
11:17:38 Greg_Noel ok, you for research?
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11:17:42 stevenknight yeah
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11:19:04 stevenknight 1906: greg and i were talking about it earlier